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0:00 Oftentimes people don't understand the significance of Memorial Day versus Veterans Day. 0:06 And Memorial Day is really, you know, our opportunity as a nation to recognize and appreciate those that have made the ultimate sacrifice in defense of the country, those 0:17 that are fallen. You can either be a gunslinger or you can be a gardener. 0:23 Now a gunslinger is fascinating to watch. Come in there making decisions, right? People are amazed. Wow. 0:28 by this young lady, this guy is just amazing. He's changing everything so quickly. It's just for that brief moment, right? 0:35 That they're riding high because there'll always be someone better, stronger, faster. 0:52 Hello and welcome to the Degrees of Success podcast. I'm your host, Freda Richards, and today we have an exceptional guest, Dean John Ramirez. 1:03 He's actually my dean, the doctoral studies dean, so it is my great, great honor to have him today. 1:10 Thank you so much for joining us. It's my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. I've been looking forward to this. 1:16 My goodness, I've been honestly, I've been a little nervous because you are my Dean. But I'm so excited after doing the research about you. 1:23 I'm so excited to learn more about you. And I'm sure that our viewers and listeners are as well. 1:29 And I'm excited about this opportunity because I've heard so much about your interviewing skills. And so I brought Kleenex and about to reveal to the world, all these secrets, but I've been looking forward to this and thank you for inviting me. 1:46 my goodness, absolutely. You know, I wanted to start off by asking you a question that's not only close to you as a veteran, but to us at ������Ƶ, something that's very special to us. 1:58 I'd like to know your definition of the significance of Memorial Day and how and why it's important to ������Ƶ. 2:07 It's a great question. First of all, think oftentimes, and what we do at the ������Ƶ is not only show our gratitude for those that have fallen, but it's also an education opportunity The Importance of Memorial Day at ������Ƶ 2:21 because oftentimes people don't understand the significance of Memorial Day versus Veterans Day. 2:30 And Memorial Day is really our opportunity as a nation to... 2:36 recognize and appreciate those that have made the ultimate sacrifice in defense of the country, those that have fallen. 2:43 And so, you know, the event that we put on every year, this will be the 16th year, is critically important. 2:51 And I think it draws a lot of focus and a lot of attention on the community because one, it was a brainchild of an employee. 3:01 And over the last 16 years, you know, every year we have a thing. 3:06 And we convert that theme, right, and put it out on the lawn, you know, using 10,000 flags. 3:12 And I think it's something that our employees look forward to because of its significance. 3:21 you know, imagine if you would, you know, that we've got members of the Veterans Employee Resource Group, 300 strong, along with, you know, other members of our 3:35 university that come out early and hand place these 10,000 flags. 3:44 And we leave that message, this year's message is a grateful nation. 3:51 And so we leave that message and again, to not only promote our theme and show our commitment, but also to reinforce to the community how important Memorial Day is. 4:04 And then at the end of the week, we'll take those flags and they'll be transported to the local veteran cemetery and placed on the grave side of each fallen veteran. 4:16 so, it's a very important day. And again, the difference is Veterans Day is in which we celebrate all veterans, right? 4:28 Those that are serving, those that are currently serving. But Memorial Day is special. because again, are literally hundreds of thousands of lives that have been lost in defense of this country and the freedoms that we hold dear to us, right? 4:44 Absolutely. How special is it to you as a veteran? 4:49 And one, let me start by saying thank you for your service. I'm a military brat myself. 4:55 You and my mom shared the same title. So how special is it to you this particular day, seeing those flags floating in the wind? 5:06 I know that when I first joined ������Ƶ, I remember seeing the post about it. 5:12 not knowing this is something that the university did. And I remember getting emotional seeing this beautiful video that was created and seeing those flags floating in the wind, knowing that the university that I work for supports 5:26 veterans. How does that feel for you as a veteran? You know, I see it through two lenses. 5:34 One, the lens of a veteran, right? And how important that day is because again, I've served with, you know, a number of veterans that have made that ultimate sacrifice. Reflections on Service and Sacrifice 5:45 And, you know, the emotion and the loss of life, you know, is deep, right? 5:55 And it literally scars you, you know, even though you know, physically well, but those that I've lost, um that I served with, forces you to reflect too upon all those that have lost their lives. 6:11 know, I mean, you know, every conflict that we've been involved in, you know, people have made the ultimate sacrifice, really, you know, without asking a lot for themselves. 6:22 um And as an employee of the ������Ƶ, 6:28 To know that this organization is committed to our military service members and their families, right, means so much to me because I've been on that side, right? 6:40 You know, been away from my family, been deployed, right? You know, been in situations where um you don't have that sense of normalcy, right? 6:51 Everything is happening around the world. You're focused on the mission. And I think giving our students the opportunity 6:58 and their family members, the opportunity to continue their education with the support of the university, right? 7:05 Gives them that sense of normalcy, right? Because they can interact with their faculty, they can interact with other students, they realize that, hey, I'm still part of this world, right? 7:18 I'm not just here out in the desert or wherever. And so I think it's also important to them. 7:27 I also believe that providing a quality education to our veterans and their family members, right, it gives them, it arms them, right, with the tools necessary to be 7:39 productive citizens, right, once they decide to lead the military. 7:44 If there was something you wanted to say to the veterans or family of veteran members, just directly to them in regards to whether they're going to be a prospective student or 7:54 if they're a current student or if they're an alumni, what words would you have for those students or alumni? 8:01 The tenacity and the perseverance that you've demonstrated as a service member or a family member, right? 8:09 And the toughest of times. And most people don't realize that, and I'm gonna go off on a tangent here, right? 8:15 know, service members, we have to remember that the draft ended in 1973. 8:21 So for over 52 years, it's been all volunteer force. Every member that is put on that uniform is volunteered to do what they have to do. The Role of Education for Veterans and Their Families 8:31 Granted, there are portions of our society that say, they had no other choice. They weren't good enough for something else, so they decided to join the military. 8:39 So far from the truth. But people don't really understand what we're asking of our service members. 8:49 You oftentimes it's glamorized, right? It's Hollywood, right? You know, whatever you watch in the movies, you know, that, you know, these Gallant Warriors are six foot seven. 9:01 You know, 250 pounds. Right. It's not like it. know, it's you're deployed oftentimes, you know, for extended periods of time. 9:12 In worse conditions, mean, miserable, too hot, too cold. Right. You're oftentimes too hungry. 9:17 Right. Too tired. And at the same time, while you're focused on your mission, you have a spouse, whether it's a husband or wife. 9:27 Right. Who's who's now handling all the responsibilities of a two-parent home, Not only working, but taking care of the house, getting the kids to school, and at the same time, worried about their loved 9:42 one who's deployed. Absolutely. Thank you for saying that because, you know, first of all, all of the veterans deserve all of the acknowledgement and the hand- mean, they've put in the great work. 9:57 And the families also have that sacrifice. When my mom was, it was like six months after 9-11, it was my senior year of high school. 10:08 And um I put her on a school bus in the middle of an empty army base um and she was off and I didn't hear from her for six months. 10:19 And I spent my first semester of college in my apartment waiting for someone to deliver me a flag because I didn't want to miss it. 10:30 And that changed my life. And I was incredibly sad and it was um a really hard time. 10:39 And there's not a lot of people who understand, the people who do are fellow Army brats and fellow military. 10:46 And I imagine having a group of people to support our veterans or to support the families of veterans as students here at ������Ƶ. 10:54 Like I could tell you that as soon as I met you, I knew we had a certain understanding. Connected, yeah. 11:01 Connected when it comes to uh being involved in the military, whether family or the one who serves, there's a certain amount of respect. 11:07 uh understanding. And so to know that our students, that our veterans or family or veterans are also getting that opportunity, and they're being able to see these beautiful flags that are waving on 11:18 our campus, representing those who have fallen while serving to protect our freedoms, it's powerful. 11:26 So thank you for being a part of that. You're more than welcome. And I do want to circle back on something you said because, you know, we focus on the service members. 11:37 Granted, they're important. What they do is tough. But I've got five kids that my wife, my wife raised, right. 11:46 And to your point, you know, as a service member who's deployed, you miss birthdays. 11:53 You know, sometimes you miss Christmas, you miss graduation and It's so interesting because there is a camaraderie that occurs amongst the military, that you have close friends that, you know, that you probably still stay in contact with, you 12:09 know, that you may have met in Germany or you've met, you know, in Missouri or Georgia. 12:14 And it helps you in your social development because, you know, you can go into unknown places and jump right in, right? 12:23 But there's also part of your psyche, and I started to realize that as a parent, right? 12:29 Where I missed some of the most critical times, you know, that I can never, ever, ever, ever get back. uh And so I think that camaraderie and knowing that I always knew that the Army would take care of my family while I was gone. 12:45 And I knew that the soldiers in my left and right would take care of me and we'd take care of each other, you know, regardless of what was happening. Leadership Lessons from Military Experience 12:52 Focus here on the mission. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you've you've definitely put your time in in the military. 12:59 So uh let's I want to ask you these questions. I've told you before you were the very first person for me to look directly at my notes at. 13:07 But you are more than worth it. So I want to make sure that I ask these particularly well. 13:14 So you served 27 years. in the United States Army and retired as command sergeant major in 2004. 13:22 How did the military experience shape your leadership philosophy and approach to education administration? 13:28 I had the privilege and the honor to work alongside, to support, and oftentimes lead some incredible human beings, young men and women. 13:40 And that's not just the service members and civilians that supported us on the installations, as well as the family members. 13:48 The military does a fantastic job getting you into multiple leadership schools as you start to go up the ranks. 13:59 constantly, if not deployed or if not reassigned or not being a drill sergeant or not doing anything else that they asked, is always sent to some leadership school. 14:09 And it was ingrained in me the importance of three things. 14:15 And this is what I always share when I go out and speak about leadership, right? The three most important leadership attributes of any quality leader, what I would call quality leader. 14:28 is number one, the leader of character, right? Someone that walks the walk, does nothing illegal, immoral or unethical, right? 14:39 And has the courage and the strength to call the baby ugly, meaning truth to power, right? 14:46 Takes an incredible amount of courage to do that, especially um when you're boss, when you're talking with your boss. 14:52 So leader of character. The second attribute is the leader of presence. oh It's one of the things that I brought with me from the military here at the university and the College of Doctoral Studies. 15:05 And my provost, Dr. Eilers is great. A leader of presence, and not just the way that they handle themselves and their professional bearing, right? 15:17 But when they walk in a room, you know they're in charge, right? Even if they don't have the title, that presence, that competence, right? 15:28 But a leader of presence is someone who's not in the office, right? Somebody that's out and about. 15:34 One of the things that the 27 years of military experience taught me was you're going to surround yourself with some really quality staff, right? 15:45 You know, non-commissioned officers, officers all providing you advice. 15:50 But the truth is found with the troops on the ground. Right? Whether they were in foxholes, whether they were in the motor pools, right? 15:59 Whether they were in the mess hall. But wanted to know what was going on in the unit? Talk to the troops, right? 16:05 Because they would tell you, right? The things that going right and going wrong. Right? No fear. 16:11 You know, oftentimes, um well, they're not doing anything with malice. And I'm talking about those in leadership positions, right? 16:19 um That are part of the organization. Oftentimes, They would tell you what they think you want to hear, right? 16:28 Because again, they want to show their commitment and their loyalty to you. 16:34 And so that is something that I brought back, brought with me from the military was get out there, walk the floor, right? 16:41 Talk to people face to face. Dr. Ahlers and I would, know, once a week, right, we'd go to our grad team and talk to our enrollment reps and our academic counselors. 16:53 And you find out everything, you find out what works, what doesn't work, what they need, what they're hearing from our potential students. 17:01 so, again, that leader of presence is important. 17:07 That final attribute is a leader of intellectual capacity, right? 17:13 Leadership skills are perishable, right? Because the world is constantly changing. 17:18 And so, you need to constantly search. 17:23 right, for information and gain knowledge because you've got to be able to adapt to those changing needs, right? 17:31 You you look at, you know, what we're faced with today. You've got to be a leader who understands the importance of navigating uncertainty and ambiguity, right? 17:43 If you're never comfortable in doing that or never faced in a situation where you're leading people, right? 17:49 What tools do you have to do it effectively, right? We're also faced with times where our employees are concerned about their finances and the economic challenges that they're going to face. 18:06 And so how do we ensure that we build this level of trust and empathy to say, it's tough out there and we know it. 18:17 What can we do to help you? What are the things that we can do to support you? 18:23 And then there's this other component where we understand that the world is changing so fast, right? 18:29 That we have to invest in people development, leader development. 18:36 I can tell you that oftentimes a leader that is not adequately prepared, and I'll use two analogies. 18:46 You can either be a gunslinger or you can be a gardener, right? Now a gunslinger, 18:52 It's fascinating to watch, come in there making decisions, right? Shooting, killing, everything inside, right? 18:57 People are amazed. Wow, right? This young lady, this guy is just amazing. He's changing everything so quickly, right? 19:04 But sooner or later, right? He runs out of bullets or she runs out of bullets. Sooner or later, right? There's somebody faster, right? 19:12 And so, you know, they either get shot in the streets, not literally, right? But it's how the movies normally end, right? 19:19 And it's, you know, it's... just for that brief moment, right? That they're riding high because they'll always be someone better, stronger, faster. Gardening vs Gunslinging: Leadership Styles 19:30 I submit to you, right, that leaders should consider themselves gardeners, right? 19:36 Where they have the patience and they take the time to plant the seeds. And I'm talking about the development of their employee, right? 19:43 Plant the seed, right? know, clear the weeds, right? 19:49 Help it grow, water it, make sure gets plenty of sunshine and the fruit that they'll bear, right, will last generations because you create that strong leader. 19:59 Right. They create other strong leaders. Right. And they help you build a culture. Right. 20:04 That not only meets the needs of the mission, but also sets up an environment that's conducive to all the things that are important to the organization. 20:14 Right. To meet its mission. Exactly. In 2024, you were selected as one of the top Hispanic leaders in the Army. 20:22 What challenges did you face as a Latino leader in the military? And how have those experiences influenced your advocacy work for Latino students and professionals today? 20:33 It's a great question. I've got to go back uh prior to my enlistment. 20:39 Again, I had the privilege of being raised by my aunt and uncle, without going into all the details. 20:49 From age three, basically, they brought me into their home. And both she was Chinese American, first generation. Challenges as a Latino Leader in the Military 20:57 um parents have migrated from mainland China. and landed in San Francisco and then eventually moved to Phoenix and then my uncle. 21:07 um But anyways, growing up, you we were young, we were growing up in the projects and he was um earning his education at ASU. 21:20 And so um became one of three that got a degree in education because his intent was to teach. 21:29 But upon graduation at that time, they didn't hire Hispanic teachers. 21:35 So we had to migrate to and we moved to California and he taught in Los Angeles, East Los Angeles. 21:41 We spent a couple of years there. But that experience when he came back ignited this fire of activism, right? 21:52 And so he was actively involved in a lot of things that were going on in the Phoenix metro area. 22:00 surrounded himself with leaders like Ed Pastor and Gutierrez. 22:06 He had the opportunity to eventually serve as chief of staff for Governor Castro and served with Governor Babbitt and was active in Chicano's Polo Calz and Val de Sor. 22:19 so throughout high school, these guys would get together on regular basis and eat breakfast or have coffee. 22:29 And so I had opportunity just to hear them, listen to them and all the things that they were working on. I may not have understood it all, but I understood that they were focused. 22:39 And so when growing up, the family overall, my aunts and uncles, especially my uncles and cousins, were able to purchase homes and secure jobs because they'd served in the 22:56 military. You know, my great uncle was a command sergeant major here in the state of Arizona. And so, you he'd always made his, know, still pot and all his web gear. 23:05 And so I'd be in the backyard playing with it and, you know, see rations and he'd make me watch combat. 23:10 And, know, he was my hero. You know, he was a Murals Marauder in World War II and did the walk of Burma. 23:18 His two sons served in Vietnam. And so, you know, I was just, you know, 23:25 always listen to the war stories and stuff. And it sounded so cool, right? um And so when I made that decision to join the army, and there was a number of reasons why I did, was going to college and actually across the street because I got frustrated 23:42 and went to the recruiting station and joined. But um it was interesting because uh come to realize real quick, a lot of those were war stories, you know. 23:54 And they remember all the good times and the fun times. 24:00 it was unique because I joined in 77. And so the Vietnam War was coming to an end around 75. 24:09 And so you still had a lot of service members that had served in Vietnam that were in the military. 24:15 And most of them were disgruntled. They really were because of what they endured in Vietnam. 24:20 And so it was interesting because there was still And have to remember that, you know, 1965, you know, to 73, they were still dealing with issues like, you know, the right to vote for African-Americans. 24:34 You know, there were still issues that were going on that resonated within the military. And so as a person of color, right, I was, because a lot of our officers and senior non-commissioned officers are white, you know, I think. 24:54 You know, I remember that one first song that was Hispanic. um 25:03 one commissioned officer that was African American um in the whole company, right? 25:11 But the ranks were filled with minorities. But it was interesting because 25:23 The environment again was different because oftentimes they would ask me, you speak English, right? 25:30 Just surname. Of course I speak English, right? Or you weren't good enough because you were of color. 25:39 And again, it wasn't as prevalent as it was 10 years before that. 25:45 But a couple of things had occurred to me right away. And I learned this from that one Hispanic non-commissioned First I wrote you Vietnam Better. 25:58 He says, they're not going to give you anything. All right. You've got to earn whatever it is that you think you can achieve. 26:05 So he says, I'm going to send you to school. All right. It's not going to be easy. You're not going to be, you know, I was a newlywed too, know, 17. 26:14 got married young. And my first year I was even with her because I was 26:20 you know, either in training or deployed. But you tell me right away, you you have to spend a lot of time with your family. 26:26 But at the end, it'll pay off, right? Just stay focused. And there's the same lesson that I learned from my uncles, right? 26:33 Is that just show them, right? Show them what you're capable of. And so every school that I took, everything that I, you know, when it came to training, right, may not be the biggest, right? 26:47 But they didn't get 110 percent, right? And I'm going to earn, right? 26:52 Whatever it is that comes my way. And that paid major dividends for me because, you know, I rose to the ranks really quick. 26:59 You know, I was E7 by eight years. You know, first started by 10th, by 12th, 15th, 13th was our major. 27:09 And so, but it was always having to prove, right? And so you had to step a little later. 27:14 You had to work a little harder. had to multitask, right? And so... 27:20 Those experiences, and again, I didn't concern myself with issues of bias or prejudice, right? 27:32 It was just, I'm here. Right? And when I was given opportunities to lead, right? 27:40 I worked to be the best leader that I possibly could. Wasn't, right? Because I'm always learning. 27:45 I'm still learning every day. But... I was going to be the best leader that I could muster, right? 27:51 Be the best at whatever it was. And so through that experience, again, a lot of things came my way, right? 28:05 And so I'm sure you've read about in 2004, the year that I was going to retire, I was selected as one of the top Hispanic leaders. 28:15 you know, in the army, which is a tremendous, tremendous recognition. 28:22 But I remember upon receiving that award, it's like, you I don't want to be perceived as a Hispanic leader. 28:28 I'm a leader in this organization. Right. Yes. And if I can be respected and recognized in that way, I'm good to go. 28:37 All right. The fact that, I'm Hispanic of origin. 28:45 right? Should not be, right? The thing that sets me apart and I don't want to be recognized. 28:51 Well, of the Hispanics, he's the best leader. Right. And so, yeah. 28:58 And so, or at least I thought, right? 29:03 But I carried that with me when I got back home because through my experiences in the military, I learned 29:09 a couple of things, especially serving in third world countries, whether Central South, South America, whether it was in excuse me, Central or Eastern Africa, was that there's a 29:20 fine line between poverty and prosperity, between enslavement and freedom and success and failure. 29:33 And that fine line is access to information, knowledge, power. Yes. Right. 29:39 And oftentimes in these third world countries where you have dictatorships, they suppress information. 29:46 They keep information from you. They keep you from being educated because then you start to ask why. 29:52 Right. Right. I couldn't have said it better. Thank you so much for being with us. Somehow that brings us to the end of this episode. 29:58 I could stay in this chair with John Ramirez all day learning more from him. oh But I'll tell you what, I know that you all have learned a lot from this episode. 30:07 I know I have as well. So thank you so much for joining us. Though we're at the end of this episode, we're encouraging you to like, comment and subscribe. 30:17 I'm your host, Frieda Richards, reminding you that your next chapter might be your best one yet. 30:22 See you soon.